August 01, 2012

Editor, 235 S. Nevada Ave., CS, CO 80903 • e-mail: letters@csindy.com

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'Gotcha' fire coverage?

I always read the Indy each week, even agreeing with some of the letter writers and stories. However, last week's edition seemed more like a "gotcha" on the Waldo Canyon Fire happenings ("Seeing through the haze," News).

Yes, mistakes were made in the use of resources that might have been available. Our Southface subdivision is just east of Centennial and Vindicator. We were part of the exodus out of "upper Rockrimmon" during that frantic Tuesday afternoon.

Yes, exit roadways could have been better planned.

However, it took me less than an hour to get from Centennial and Vindicator to I-25 at 6:30 p.m. on June 26. People were polite, some even stopping to fill their car with gas, as most of us inched along.

It is so easy for the Indy and Pam Zubeck to find things that weren't smooth and organized. Now is the time to get on with the evaluations and training to help things become more efficient the next time. How is government ever going to be ready for every contingency that occurs in such a diverse community — from the rock quarries to the Powers corridor? From the Air Force Academy to Fort Carson? It will never happen!

Taking potshots never seems like the best way to solve problems or improve anything!

— Duane C. Slocum

Colorado Springs

'Seeing' it differently

What was your point, Pam Zubeck?

If you're one of my neighbors whose home was damaged or destroyed in the fire, I'm so very sorry. I am among the fortunate — my home was unharmed. As our community tries to heal and rebuild, it helps to evaluate what went well and what didn't, so have you a helpful point to your article ("Seeing through the haze")?

On one hand, you cite the dearth of wildfire experience for our chief and deputy chief, yet you question why civilian assistance was not utilized.

Humanity is not successful in predicting or harnessing weather events, let alone the path of a wildland fire. (If you have experience in this area, please forgive my lack of the same.)

In my neighborhood, we were on evacuation notice from Saturday, June 23. Throughout the Waldo Canyon Fire, the battalion chief, along with many firefighters, monitored the fire and new smoke curls from the vantage point of my street. We were informed that they received continuous updates from firefighters all over the region, and they pointed out new areas of concern to us in advance of media.

This was neither idling around nor wasting of resources.

Queens Canyon became involved on Tuesday afternoon, June 26, and as our world exploded in fire and smoke, 32,000 of us were evacuated. Was the successful implementation of this plan what you wanted to convey?

Manitou Springs, Cedar Heights, and towns up and down U.S. Highway 24 were spared because of the efforts of firefighters and the effective use of resources.

For an unprecedented, catastrophic event, resources weren't idle, rather, they were stretched beyond what planning could prepare for and were utilized successfully.

— Norma Hollister

Colorado Springs


Guns kill people

I write to you with profound sadness over the Batman massacre, where 12 people were killed and 58 injured, making the tragic incident one of the largest mass shootings in U.S. history.

My heart goes out to all of those who are affected by this tragedy.

We simply cannot accept gun violence as a "norm" in our society. I believe it is imperative for our public policy to reflect a commitment to lessening the terrible toll that gun violence takes in so many lives every year.

While the debate over gun violence and gun control can quickly become divisive, we cannot allow a difficult debate to deter us from addressing what is a major public health crisis in the U.S.

The cost of gun violence, in medical costs, costs of the criminal justice system, security requirements and in quality of life reduced by fear of gun violence, is difficult to measure.

I believe we can certainly take reasonable common-sense steps to reduce the likelihood of deaths and injuries due to gun violence.

Let's reach across the divisive debate around gun control and take small steps to save lives.

— Dennis Apuan

Colorado Springs

Sick people kill people

Colorado ranks toward the bottom out of 50 states, in providing for persons with mental illness and disabilities. Severe problems abound, with insufficient diagnosis, treatment, education, care and residential placement (other than incarceration) being available.

Is there a connection between the current tragic shooting in Aurora, the also-tragic shootings at Columbine and a Colorado Springs church, etc., and Colorado's failure to provide mental health treatment and residential facilities? Many in the medical and legal fields, social services and special education have for years believed that such lack of provision is tragedy waiting to happen.

The TABOR Amendment, squelching fair and equal taxation of all, particularly corporations and the wealthy, is often cited by concerned professionals in Colorado's having a lower-than-low rating in providing health care, placement and education for those with mental illness and emotional/behavioral disorders.

As one concerned psychiatrist not long ago told me: "We need help. This isn't practicing medicine."

— Rita Ague

Colorado Springs

A bigger picture

Could the media please give us a break with endless grisly accounts of the Aurora killings? I understand it was a tragedy, and our sympathies lie with the 70 innocent victims. But, we also need to appreciate that 86 Americans are killed by firearms every day, and nearly 4,000 are killed prematurely by chronic diseases linked with consumption of animal products and lack of exercise. (cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_04.pdf) So, let's replace the vacuous hand-wringing over the Aurora tragedy with constructive personal steps to lessen the greater tragedies facing us every day.

— Carl Silverman

Colorado Springs

Springs' cash cow

No citizen who observed City Council on July 23 could come away without finding it a mind-boggling experience. One after another, city department spokespersons detailed maintenance and replacement needs for antiquated infrastructure, and each department has many high-priority needs.

There seems to be consensus that the problems are region-wide and solutions should be sought on a regional basis, numerous communities contributing. While that may be true, the lion's share of needs and infrastructure renewal is in Colorado Springs. It follows that major funding for projects must come from this city and its people.

To alleviate stormwater problems alone would take an estimated $500 million. Add other high-priority needs and we need another $150 million.

It is folly to think some wealthy benefactor will die and leave the city $650 million in his will. So where will we get a large sum of money to accomplish all or most of our requirements without outrageous taxation?

Extraordinary problems require extraordinary solutions. It's time for the city to look at its enterprises and assets. Considering the huge amount taxpayers have invested over generations, there has been virtually no monetary return to the city on those investments.

Our most valuable asset is Utilities. Unlike most other cities, our Utilities include gas, water and electricity. My idea would be to obtain Requests for Proposal from potential bidders or buyers for one-third of our system, electricity. Without obligation, we could obtain a good idea of what the system is worth. If the price is right, City Council then may elect to hold public meetings.

— John A. Daly

Colorado Springs

What's Mitt hiding?

This week my wife and I had to submit our previous year's tax return to the University of Colorado's financial aid office for our children's scholarships and grants approval. This is reasonable in that they must verify our children's qualifications for financial assistance.

When they were admitted to CU we had to submit Colorado tax returns and motor vehicle registration records verifying that we were residents of the state so they would receive in-state tuition.

In years past when seeking business loans, auto loans and a home mortgage we were asked to submit multiple-year tax returns to verify income and financial assets. Verifying financial records is a common practice, especially among the middle working classes. It has also become expected for politicians seeking elected office.

But the presumptive Republican presidential nominee refuses to release (therefore verify) his federal tax records previous to 2010, and 2011's is still being administered and may not be released until just before or after the election. One tax return for the public (yes, us, the "you people" in the Romney household), because the presumptive nominee fears opposition research from the Democratic incumbent's campaign will find something. Huh?

The U.S. electorate has come to know that verifying the income and wealth of presidential candidates (and whether he or she has paid all taxes) is part of the process even if they are super-rich or think they live by another set of social and legal rules. "Stated income" does not qualify in this matter. If it was good for the father to release a dozen years of taxes, it is good for the son. Let us see what really is in those returns.

— Bob Nemanich

Colorado Springs


Won't stand up in court

In response to Lotus' letter in the July 18 Independent regarding oil and gas development ("Oil and gas untruths" Letters), it is clear that he or she has a deeply flawed understanding of how the legal system works.

The Pittsburgh ordinance banning oil and gas drilling was adopted over the advice of the city attorney and would almost certainly be struck down if challenged as being over-reaching for a city under Pennsylvania law. It was introduced by a city councilman who was grandstanding. It was not opposed by the oil and gas industry because the geology for gas extraction is not good under the city and it would be nearly impossible to comply with Pennsylvania state regulations regarding setbacks, etc., within the city.

In Colorado, oil and gas development has been held to be of mixed state and local interest. If a local ordinance prohibits what the state regulation allows, state law will control. The state allows oil and gas development as long as state rules are followed. An attempt to ban oil and gas development will be struck down by the courts.

In the early '90s I argued this issue before the Colorado Supreme Court. Greeley, by a vote of the people, had banned all new oil and gas development within the city limits. The court said that the city could not do that and could only adopt regulations which did not conflict with the state regulations.

Lotus may have the personal opinion that there are basic, superior rights to "health, clean water, air, and soil" which trump existing statutes and case law but that is only his or her personal opinion. Trying to make such an argument in court is very unlikely to be successful.

— George Monsson

Fort Morgan


There they go again, those silly Republicans, wasting time and money to repeal the Affordable Care Act for the 33rd time even though they know it will not succeed, because Obamacare is popular and is already helping many Americans.

Not a word about the jobs bill, except to kill the Democrats' proposal for small-business tax cuts, which would've helped create a million jobs (politico.com/news/stories/0712/78452.html).

Their consistent opposition is not to help the economy or the middle class, but to undercut it and hurt President Obama, per instructions from Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell. If Obamacare is repealed, there will be increasing prescription drug costs for seniors, health insurance companies can again deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, and taxpayers will subsidize health care for life for members of Congress.

This relentless action to demonize and repeal Obamacare is yet another distraction from the GOP's lack of a proper jobs bill and their derailment of Obama's jobs bill last fall, which would've put 2 million construction workers, cops, teachers and firefighters back to work.

— Sharlene White

Oceanside, Calif

Being responsible

Approximately 40 percent of our population is obese and the majority fall into the poverty level. That's a dichotomy if there ever was one.

Shouldn't they be skinny? Do they drink alcohol? Do they smoke? Just curious. I raised three children, ages 6, 7 and 8 without child support, without food stamps, welfare, Medicaid.

I worked two jobs for 15 years and we did without a lot of material things, but not without food or love. Why? Because that was my responsibility, not my neighbors'. By the way, I also put them through college without student loans.

— Joan Christensen


Comments (16)

Showing 1-16 of 16

To Rita Ague: Jazus! Have you no shame? First the loony left politicizes catastrophe with their constant whining about gun control. Now, Miz Rita wants to blame the Aurora shootings on TABOR. How loathsome is that? She writes: "...squelching fair and equal taxation of all..." How pathetic!

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Posted by smartestman on 08/01/2012 at 6:58 AM

Sharlene: Obamacare is not popular, at least among the majority. I'm sure it is much more popular among those that continue to want something for nothing. Those leeches that continue to take and never give. The same ones that think they are "entitled" because someone else might have more than them.
Here is more food for thought: Increasing the size of government (Obama's idea of a jobs bill) does not create anything but more already bloated, incompetent, wasteful government.
Those folks that believe government is there to help, are already helpless.

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Posted by smartestman on 08/01/2012 at 7:11 AM

Joan Christensen: You, my dear, are a true American hero. Thank you for your letter.

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Posted by smartestman on 08/01/2012 at 7:14 AM

I had hoped to have my letter printed but I don't see it so I will post it here, especially for Dennis Apuan and those like him who fail to see clearly and think logically:

I would like to point out that we all know when some moron arms itself and kills, the gun control crowd bleats for more laws. I will type this real slow for you: In this instance as with every other instance (of a high profile shooting) it has been proven yet again that gun control laws work. Nobody had a gun! except the criminal and criminals pay no attention to laws.

If your idea is to totally disarm every American then you are my enemy and an enemy of anyone who believes in the Bill of Rights. An enemy by definition is someone who wants to kill you and one should be able to defend themselves. Why is this hard for so many to grasp? Again, your gun control laws are working. (This sort of stuff happens to every society that gives the government power to do as it wishes (Nazi Germany for instance). The United States of America has a government that is forgetting for whom they work and it's citizens haven't a clue. They cannot read a simple sentence and understand it, for example: The Right of the People Shall Not Be Infringed).

To this I will add:

I contacted Senator Udall and pointed out that over the last few decades our government has made citizens such as those in that theater sitting ducks. Propaganda and other nonsense about firearms spewed by those who care not for defending themselves, their country, their neighbor or The Bill of Rights has a stranglehold on so many citizens. There is not one good reason for gun control. It has disarmed the law-abiding even though we have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Washington can make laws and speeches but they do that only because the blood of the victims in on their hands.
Please do not argue about the man wearing body armor as close range shot by an armed citizen that hits the chest has the force equal to a baseball bat. Empty the clip and that man is down. Government and anti-gun groups will never ever disarm America so I suggest get over your fear of guns. buy one, learn to use it and pack it with you. Read Massaad Ayoob's book "In The Gravest Extreme", it will do you a world of good.
Do not forget how well gun control worked in Aurora, nobody had one! Except...

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Posted by Bob Wyman on 08/01/2012 at 9:55 PM

Hey Mr. Apuan,

Did you or someone previous make up the cliché "Batman Massacre"? It almost sounds like you get some Hollywood-centred amusement from this event. Who said anybody was accepting "gun violence" as a norm? I think you mean "people violence", because people kill people. You forget about the fact that the 'Old West' had higher murder rates by guns than modern day Los Angeles and new York. Stop acting like this is some new thing to hit America. The entire history of the country(and the world) has been basically built on violence, whether by guns, bombs, sticks and stones or monkeys throwing shit at each other!

What, in fact, is a "major public health crisis"? More people die in this country from true health problems than by "gun violence". The "criminal justice system" makes and spends most of its illegitimate money from and for the phony "War on Drugs", bull-shit traffic infractions, and sticking their nose in people's domestic disturbances--not gun violence. Please don't use this "gun control" shit to excuse the phony and backwards"criminal justice system"! Anyone who has a "fear of gun violence" should go buy themselves a gun for protection.

"Gun control" should not be a debate. Government "gun control" is completely unconstitutional and should not be accepted by anyone. If a number of folks at the theatre would have had guns themselves, then I suppose it could have been closer to a fair fight.

Get the facts straight and stop trying to promote your damn "gun control" garbage at the local paper.

Personally I love AR-15's and chrome-plate .45's, but hey, they're all great!

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Posted by Revolutionary30 on 08/01/2012 at 11:55 PM

Good point Rita.

Colorado does love to incarcerate people. However, this is the case in just about every state now, not just wonderful Colorado. The simple fact is that they don't give a crap about anybody in this category because they are not deemed profitable resources to the State and its banking and corporate monopolies. It's the old Nazi concept of "if they are poor, disabled or mentally ill, just let them die". In this case it's "just leave them alone until they kill people".

People are doing these things because this has become an extremely corrupt and backwards society--thanks to an Occult Government, corporate dictators, and a filthy media and entertainment monster. How can anyone be sane when the whole thing is being run by criminals? It shouldn't really be questioned when someone loses his/her mind. Welcome to modern America everyone.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to an extremely sick society." -- Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Posted by Revolutionary30 on 08/02/2012 at 12:16 AM

Well said Mr. Silverman.

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Posted by Revolutionary30 on 08/02/2012 at 12:19 AM

John A. Daly stated it correctly, "Considering the huge amount taxpayers have invested over generations, there has been virtually no monetary return to the city on those investments."

Give up the idea, we are not going to see necessary work done to the city as long as scum-bags are pocketing all the tax-payer money! Overthrow city government--get our funds back--put those funds toward needed procedures--create job opportunities--to benefit everyone.

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Posted by Revolutionary30 on 08/02/2012 at 12:30 AM

Why does everyone keep going on about Romney disclosing his tax records? Who cares. Mitt is an idiot like the other politicians. We don't need him for president any more than Obama!

"Income Tax" is unconstitutional and illegal anyway.

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Posted by Revolutionary30 on 08/02/2012 at 12:35 AM

There they go again, those silly Democrats(Progressive rats) pushing for Big Government. in the form of a forced tax under the guise of "care".

By the way Sharlene, more construction workers and fire-fighters would be fine, but we don't need more teachers to feed spoonfuls of government-controlled education to our children, and we sure in hell don't need more police(Policy Enforcers).

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Posted by Revolutionary30 on 08/02/2012 at 12:43 AM

Excellent, Bob Wyman! It is relieving to know there are still good-old-fashioned Americans out there. Keep up the good work.

Hey, it's not really a surprise that the paper didn't publish your letter. They seem to disregard my Libertarian views as well. Maybe they put it on the back-burner and will publish it next week? Apparently they had to get all the pro-Obama and anti-gun shit out of the way first.

By the way, I hope you're right about "them" not disarming us. However, what if they sent foreign U.N. troops in to do it for them? A system that has been utilized before by tyrannical governments. We will see.

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Posted by Revolutionary30 on 08/02/2012 at 1:03 AM

is see the rev is preaching his garbage conspiracy theory gospel again. also dumbassman is... well being a dumbass. he spouts half truths and out right lies. the majority of americans support the affordable care act because they are seeing it help so many people. the assault weapon ban should be re-instated. assault weapons are made to kill as many people as quickly as possible. even most gun freaks agree that the assault weapons ban made sense. if you conservatards weren't so scared of everything maybe you could relax, not be so angry and enjoy life. it sure would make the rest of us happier.

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Posted by Daytripper on 08/02/2012 at 9:04 AM

sniff: Every time you post, you reinforce everything I have ever said about you. You are the most vacuous person I have ever seen. What a pitiful excuse for a human. Tell me something, did you actually make it past fourth grade? Your inane comments are mind numbing. Here is a thought for you (actually for your big sister to explain to you, since you are incapable of thought), there is a difference between blissful ignorance and being happy.

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Posted by smartestman on 08/02/2012 at 9:43 AM

Hollister Lady,

You missed the point of Pam's article. She was not dissing the fire fighters. She is pointing to some seemingly inappropriate decisions by city leadership that got in the way of the sheriff and others who were supposed be in charge.

If you saw all the news conferences, you saw Bach, Latham, that short haired blonde commisioner whose name escapes me. There is something that smells around these politicians interfering with fighting the fire that Pam is sniffing out.

Notice who has recently gone to the mattresses. I think figurative fire is about to rain down from heaven on our city.

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Posted by TejonTech on 08/02/2012 at 8:45 PM


Smartestman speaketh the truth. He and I both have you figured out, so you should stop attempting to climb to our level of education and intelligence--it could be bad for your health. While he and I may not agree on everything, and don't have everything figured out, and a few of our statements are purely opinions, we both understand where things are really at and that there remains only one hope to get this country back to where it needs to be. I think this is way over your head! I am convinced you are the only "dumb-ass" on here.

You really amaze me. I mean, you blow me away! Not because you are intelligent and post really thought-provoking points, but because of your dry, pointless, mind-numbing statements. I ask again--does your screen-name imply that you are a drug addict? You act just like one--blabbering cheap accusations at everyone and defending your ideas with shallow and superficial statements. I have dealt with your type in the real world many times! Do you ever have anything logical to say instead of just "you this and you that"? I asked you these questions last time and you never answered! You are not building a very good reputation for yourself by acting in such a manner. I would recommend that you at least abandon your present profile, start a new one with a different name, and attempt to actually be part of the debates on here.

How can you say that "Obamacare" is already helping so many people? What the hell are you talking about? Do you know these people personally? How can something that is forced and required, help people? Even I would be for it if: 1) I knew that the government actually cared about us and had our best interests in-mind. 2) It was not REQUIRED and FORCED on the working-class through taxation and penalties, and everyone had a free-will in the matter to accept or reject. 3) It actually offered serious help to the jobless and homeless.

Further, why should assault weapons be banned? Many things are made to kill--bombs, knives, cheeseburgers and diet soda. Something shouldn't be "banned" just because it has a potential to harm! This argument is as stupid as the argument as to why consumer fireworks should be illegal--with an ample supply and some other materials, you can turn those into large-scale destructive weapons. If you really are a "tripper", then I ask: why should the Hemp plant be banned? I thought drugs expanded your mind, not make it less dense? The fact is, it is just the government once again regulating what we can have or not have--oh, for our own good, right? Give me a break! Stupid people give-way to stupid laws!

By the way sniff, what is a "gun freak"? Where do you come up with this nonsense? Also, you, like all the other Progressive nuts, say that Conservatives are retards? Hey, here is an idea: if all you anti-Conservative and anti-Libertarian fools don't like what the country was founded on(in the midst of the flaws), then I would like you all to get the hell out of here and go live in another country. Try China or North Korea, where you can be fully regulated by Big Government. It is not terrorists we have to watch out for, but all you sinister rats that have been ruining this place for generations! Stop trying to destroy America!

I have a tendency to be harsh, and I don't try to make a habit of it, but some people leave me no choice. On a truly serious note, all bashing and bragging from everyone aside, I encourage you to truly study the facts and find out how and why things have changed throughout our history--it hasn't been for the benefit of the people, like you claim. A study of the 16th and 17th amendments, the presidencies of Woodrow Wilson and Franklin D. Roosevelt , and the creation of the Federal Reserve, should keep you occupied for a while.

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Posted by Revolutionary30 on 08/03/2012 at 11:13 AM

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Alicia from http://paydayloansat.com/ company online

Posted by Alicia Sanders on 12/21/2012 at 12:59 AM
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